NEW YORK (WABC) — As we head into a new year, many people turn to the stars for guidance, checking their horoscopes or sometimes looking to psychics about what’s to come. But the two men at the center of this story have been using those gifts for something very different.
You might call them the definition of an unlikely duo, one’s a psychic, the other an FBI agent. They’re real-life friends and partners who have worked together for the past 25 years tracking some of the most notorious criminals.
And now, John Edward and Bob Hilland are sharing some of the inner workings of cases they’ve collaborated on in a new book, it’s called Chasing Evil.
Joelle Garguilo sat down with them both to talk about the book, how their unlikely partnership started, and how they’ve helped in countless chilling cases as they hunted evil together.
Joelle Garguilo: I think maybe a good place would be your first impressions of one another. And I say that because, Bob, you were a little skeptical, as I would imagine people in your field are.
Bob Hilland: Yeah, 100%. I heard him on the radio several times, and I thought it was utterly ridiculous, how could people believe this? I heard him one day and I had this response that I needed to figure out if he was a con or not. And it just so happened I had many cases. One of them involved a woman and a couple who disappeared at the hands of one guy, and there were no witnesses to lead to a suspect. So I brought that case to him to vet out, was he a con or was he legit?
Joelle Garguilo: And when that meeting happened, you started to read him.
John Edward: Yeah, I didn’t really trust his intentions, the reason why he was there, because I don’t do police work. I don’t do investigative work. My passion is to help people, everyday people. Help them maybe become unstuck or connect with their family members and friends. But this came in and I kind of felt a sense, we’ll call it a sense of duty. He kind of tested me, right? He brought me control items, and then I wound up reading for him. And I think that’s where the journey began. The journey began where I gave him information that I could not possibly know, that was later confirmed by his family. And then that kind of cracked open the potential.
Joelle Garguilo: So much of your job must be being faced with skepticism and criticism. Do you feel like that?
John Edward: It is, and it should be. I think we have to approach everything in life as a critical thinker. We have to be skeptical. We have to say, “I’m not sure.” I want people to be seekers and explorers, and if they’re a seeker and an explorer, that can lead to discovery. I came into the subject matter very skeptical. I’ve remained skeptical in my mindset. I’m always looking for validation and information within a reading that I’m the one who’s doing it. I’m always looking to help back it up.
Joelle Garguilo: You didn’t want anybody to know about this. Then why do the book now?
John Edward: The book Chasing Evil starts with a little boy named Noah. And when that case gets resolved, for the very first time in our three decades of doing this, it was something that I heard in his voice, it was something that I felt, and there was a press conference that was happening. Up until that moment, it’d always be, “Please don’t use my name,” and he used to jokingly say, “No worries, I want to keep my job.” So we were in perfect alignment there. Something seemed to shift when it came to that case. And I think what’s important is that folks like Bob don’t always get that validation, and I think this is kind of an opportunity for him to be validated in his personal life.
Bob Hilland: We’ve been on quite a journey for many years. I wrote the first draft of this book probably six or seven years ago. It was just cathartic to get it out. And then as I concluded my career at the Bureau and moved on to my new career, he and I would have many conversations about, “Hey, maybe it’s time we start putting this together.” Because we’ve been on quite a ride for a long time.
Joelle Garguilo: Can you talk about some of the cases, at least the ones that we read about in this book?
Bob Hilland: There’s the Yale University student Annie Le, who was murdered and killed. There is the Michael Vick dog fighting case. There is a guy by the name of John Smith, and then there are some overseas experiences in places like Afghanistan and Kazakhstan.
Joelle Garguilo: If we go into the Annie case at Yale, so here you are, you’re there, and you can’t find her. You call John, and then what happens?
Bob Hilland: There were a lot of investigators from many agencies looking for this poor young girl. It was obvious that she had been assaulted and likely killed, and the question was, where was her body? It’s like looking for a needle in a haystack, but you don’t know which haystack you’re looking in. I think the second day, I’m at the laboratory where she was last seen. I was with the Connecticut State Police, the FBI. They were giving me the walkthrough, and at that moment, John called me from Ireland and said, “Hey, wherever you are right now, she’s there.” I said, “What do you mean she’s there?” He said, “Wherever you are right now.” And if you’ve ever seen him, once he starts getting information, it comes quick. Now you have to understand, I was not the lead investigator. I was just one of many people helping out in this case, and I’m surrounded by colleagues and associates. And John says, “Hey, wherever you are, did they find a mini-refrigerator?” So now I have to turn to these folks who don’t even know me and say, “Hey guys, I got a crazy question. Any chance you came across a mini-refrigerator?” And they looked at me like, “Yeah. Where is it?” So now this group of six or seven of us are walking through the labyrinth of these hallways. John’s on the phone talking to me, “She’s there.” And now we’re face to face with this mini-refrigerator. And John says, “You there?” I said, “Yeah.” And he says, “All right, there’s a door on the right, and there’s a door on the left.” And I said, “That’s right.” He says, “She’s in the door on the left.” I said, “Guys, we need to go in there.” They open the door, and keep in mind, the whole place had already been searched thoroughly. And John says, “Hey, she’s in the pipes. She’s like between pipes or something.” And we’re looking through this room, four or five of us, and it’s a rather large room, but she’s not there. And he’s on the phone adamant. I said, “I’m sorry, John. We’ve all looked. She’s not here.” The next day, perhaps, I’m driving back to DC and my phone lights up from one of my colleagues. He says, “Bob, you’re not gonna believe this. We found her.” I said, “Where’d you find her?” She was in the wall between the bathroom and the room. She was between the pipes.
Joelle Garguilo: How does that happen? I know it’s gotta be so hard to explain it.
John Edward: So when I’m working with energies, every single person I sit in front of is a case to me. Every person is a case. And I have to figure out who’s coming through, how did they pass, and what is their story? What Bob did with me is, if I was a flashlight, he just directed my ability to use it in a different capacity.
Joelle Garguilo: When I did ask “Why now?”, there’s a part of me that almost thought a different reason why now, because there are some cases in this book where the body was never found. The people were never prosecuted. And in a sense, I thought maybe for you, Bob, this was your way to give justice to the victims.
Bob Hilland: You can be the best FBI agent or investigator, run everything to the ground, and sometimes the cases don’t work out like you want. When the readers go through this book, I think they’re gonna feel like they’re a part of these investigations when they hear the conversation between John and I, but I really hope they take away that we cared about these people. We cared about their families, the sacrifices we both made going through this personally and professionally.
Joelle Garguilo: Yeah. What do you guys love about this relationship, this friendship?
John Edward: Not the height difference.
Joelle Garguilo: I know. But also we should say you are, what, six foot eight?
Bob Hilland: I am. Six foot eight. I am.
Joelle Garguilo: Yeah.
Bob Hilland: Well, I think for me, there’s been a lot of laughs, a lot of tears, a lot of growth, and sometimes the only way you grow is through pain, and there’s been some of that too, right? I mean, not between us, but in the journey we experienced together. We all have, I think, a lot of acquaintances in our life. We have few brothers. He’s one of mine.
Joelle Garguilo: Do you feel like you were supposed to come together?
John Edward: I do. I think everything happens for a reason. I think for everybody that’s watching this, there are things that are taking place that are acting as catalysts for change.
Joelle Garguilo: Not that this is about that, but for the skeptics out there, what would you say?
John Edward: Stay skeptical, but don’t be cynical.
Bob Hilland: I would say that I was that guy. I am that guy. God forbid that any of these people who are skeptical, if they had somebody close to them that disappeared and they had the best investigator working the case, and that investigator ran every lead to the ground. And despite everything, they couldn’t find a loved one. But I happen to have this buddy here who may be able to say, “Hey, maybe look over there.” Would they not want me to talk to him? I went from this black-and-white young guy where life is this. If I can change, you know, I’m the son of Archie Bunker, if I can change, anybody can.
Joelle Garguilo: What’s it like for you when you’re introducing new people to your friend and you know that they are skeptics, and all of a sudden, he does what he does?
Bob Hilland: Yeah. It’s funny. Those moments, and there were a few of them. There was another one with the Secret Service. It sounds crazy, but I felt like I was proud of him. Like, this is my buddy.
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